tv Charlie Rose PBS September 21, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PDT
>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight a remarkable interview with a pope. we'll talk to father matt malone and father joseph mcshane. >> the pope is trying to help the church get its pastoral bearings for the 21st century. and in so doing, he has spoken, but more importantly, i think he's modeled for us what he believes the church has to be. it has to be the church that is missionary and filled with mercy. in its outreach, has to be concerned with the poor-- he speaks about the poor as being the people from whom we will hear the voice of god. >> rose: we conclude with billy cristal and his book "still foolin' 'em." >> it gave me a discipline i didn't have before as far as writing. when i worked on a script as a producer or writer i would be in the room with other people. this was getting to the computer every day for a set amount of
time-- whatever happened, happened. if i had something great, i if i didn't, i wouldn't go. and i really loved it and it brought back so many stories and so many memories that when it was done, i felt like, okay. i've had a really good life. and that's what the book is about. >> rose: an interview with the pope and a conversation billy crystal next. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.
>> rose: a new interview with pope francis has electified the catholic community. the cannedit conversation conducted over several days in august was published in 16 different countries on thursday. the pope used the opportunity to signal a hue approach to divisive issues like divorce, homosexuality, and abortion. unless a new balance is found between the church's doctrines and its spiritual mission the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards. joining me is father matt malone, editor of "america magazine," which published the pope 53 interview in the united states. and farther joseph mcshane, president of fordham university. welcome, great to have you here. this is a great story. you're the editor here. tell me how this happened. >> you know, quite in a very
casual way, we were sitting in my office here in midtown at the-- just a few weeks after the pope was lexingtoned, and one of my editors said, why don't we try to interview the pope. and -- >> rose: that's exactly what i said with my producer, "why don't we try to interview the pope." and they said, "we'll have you examined examined in a few minutes." >> we had just lived through six weeks of unprecedented and unlikely events, the resignation of a pope, the election of an argentinean. and we started talking to our contacts in rome, and while we were in those conversations we realized that our colleagues at the jesuit journal in rome were also interested in getting an interview. and we said, you know, let's team up. and, you know, that might give us better odds of success. and so one of the italian jesuits went to the pope and
said, "would you be willing to sit down with us?" and the pope said, "yes." >> rose: just like that? >> that's right. just like that. so it really-- i mean, it obviously wouldn't have happened if the pope had said no. but it was the fact that he wanted to, i think, reach people in a different way. reach people in a new way. >> rose: you think it had anything to do with the fact that he was a jesuit? >> i think so. i don't think that's irrelevant. i'm not exactly shoe how that factored into it but i'm pretty sure it was relevant. >> rose: one of the questions is why did you become a jesuit. he said three things in particular struck me about the society, the missionary spirit, community, and discipline, and this is strange because i'm really, really undisciplined person. but their discipline, the way they manage their time, these things struck me so much. >> yes, yeah. i think that's probably something that a lot of jesuits would tell you, which is -- >> rose: discipline? >> well, that they-- that we
have a kind of desire to have god at the very center of our lives, but we need a community and an order and a way of proceeding that helps us do it. >it. >> it structures our lives. >> absolutely. >> rose: i got thumb morning and read the paper. "washington post" francis addresses pastoral role, less emphasis on rules. pope identifies with regular catholics. "washington post." "new york times": pope says church is obsessed with gays, abortion, birth controlam. what i took out of it is the following-- the pope is obsessed with his pastoral role, and he does not want the church simply to be caught up in all the conversation and all the debate, necessary debate, but only one of a number of doctrines of the church. so that it forgets that its mission for him-- serve the
poor. >> i think you're absolutely correct. i think this is a moment-- i turn to matt for conversation about it-- i think this is a moment where the pope is trying to help the church get its pastoral bearings for the 21st century. and in so doing, he has-- he has spoken, but more importantly, i think he's modeled for us what he believes church has to be. it has to be the church that is missionary. and filled with mercy. in its outreach, has to be concerned with the poor-- he speaks about the poor as being the people from whom he will hear the voice of god calling to us a new conversion of heart. so i think, yes, i think the "washington post" has it absolutely correct. this is a very pastoral moment where the church is getting its bearings, and the pope is really, interestingly enough, feeling his way forward. i don't think he has a set idea. except the poor, the gospel, god is central. >> rose: that was also what he
was, too. you know? >> yeah, no, that's certainly true. i mean, i would say that this is really a moment in which the pope is allowing-- helping us to get our pastoral bearings, but he's also-- he's doing that by reminding us what our priorities are, you know, and he's reminding us that the central truth of our faith is that we have this relationship with a god who has created and redeemed us in love. ... and all that the church teaches, all the church believes, all the church does is really only intelligible in light of that relationship. >> rose: make no mistake here-- he is not saying this a change in tone, not a change in doctrine. >> right. >> rose: the church hasn't changed in terms of its attitude about gays, abortion, birth control. it has not changed. it may have change its tone, but not its doctrine. >> that's true. the doctrine hasn't changed and he didn't announce a new teaching but i wouldn't underestimate the power of the
shift because -- >> rose: meaning it may be a new beginning in terms of the way we look at those things? >> i think that's certainly true. for instance, on the issue of homosexuality,un, the church in the modern era has always taught that gay and lesbian people ought to be embraced with a certain sensitivity, that we ought to affirm their inherent dignity, that we ought to be a place of welcome to them. >> in essence he has said we must try and look at each person's through god's eyes. would god look at a person who is gay or has been involved in something that the rest of the world would find unacceptable, he said would god look that the person with anything but love and mercy? that's important. >> rose: a lot of people would violently disagree with the idea that any of these things have to do with sin, but some interpret this and the church's teachings that we love the sinner and hate the sin. >> there are a lot of interesting things in this
interview, and i'm deeply grateful to matt and his staff for getting it. but if you look at-- how does he characterize himself? ... when he's asked, "who are you?" he says, "i am a sir, and i'm not talking about categories. of the he has this knowledge of himself, this expercongressional knowledge of himself as a sinner who is redeemed. >> this is what he says. this is the first question, i saw in the "new york times." who is jorge? i upon a sinner. this is the most accurate definition. it is not a figure of spenchg a politerary genre-- i am a sinner. >> and i think the fact that he is-- and this is not rhetorical. i take him at his word. the fact that he knows that is what makes him such an effective, i would say missionary of mercy. and i think that's the way he sees his ministry so far, a missionary of mercy, reaching up on the and identifying with people and saying i don't have a barrier between and you me.
we're in the same boat. we're both sinners. and i love-- i love you. and that's-- i think that's an arresting sort of experience for us. >> rose: why did father spadaro do this, not father malone? >> father spad armo speaks italian. ( laughter ). >> gl you have to go get your rosetta stone. >> and the journal's contrent approved by the vatican so they have a known relationship. >> rose: they were a known quantity within the church? and it took place at his home? where? in the papal-- in the pope's room. >> rose: really? >> at the hotel where he's been living since the conclave. >> rose: he didn't go to the big apartment did did he? >> he said i went to the apostolic apartments and where all the popes have lived for searchries, and i heard within
me a distinct no. that's what he said. >> rose: god spoke. >> and he said it's not luxurious. he says it's tastefully decorated. but the problem is, it's like an inverted funnel. he said people can very-- very few people can come and go at any one time because the entrance is narrow. and he said, "and i can't live without people. i can't live without a community of people around me." so he said, if i'm going to be any good at this job, i can't live here. >> rose: he reviewed the manuscript. did he change anything that we know of. >of. >> not that wean of. >> he approved it in italian. we had it translated into knlsh and labored over it for about five weeks with a team of five italian translators. >> rose: you labored over it? >> labored over it. >> rose: wald whatwould you labor over? >> every word. >> rose: to make sure that what? >> to make sure we were correctly conveying to the relationship the meaning of what
he was saying. >> you want to get the-- >> we didn't want to just get a literal translation. we wanted to conivate meaning of his words. >> rose: there is also this, who is-- and i asked this, this morning of cardinal dolan. who is offended by this? who is botherredly by this? who within the church? >> well, you know, that's a big question. i'm going to go at it the opposite way. i would say-- and i'm not going out on too much of a limb here-- i would say most of the women and men who work in the parishes and in front-line ministry receive this with i would say unfamed joy, with great enthusiasm of spirit because it speaks in terms that resonate with the lived experience of those who are pastors, whether women or men. i think those who would not receive this with joy would be those who have conceived of the faith in narrow, dogmatic terms,
and not in terms of what francis says at the beginning of faith is the encounter with the lord. and it goes beyond strictures. >> rose: would you count the living pope benedict among those? >> i think pope benedict and pope francis speak with one another, understand one another, and are very much in sync with one another. i think, however, the language is different. benedict speaks a language of great erudition, and agreement precision. francis, by his own admission, is someone who speaks a language which is more evocative and inviting; less precise more pastoral -- >> rose: less scholarly. >> less scholarly. and he admits that, that he does not have that same discipline of mind-- >> language of the heart. >> it's the language of a heart and the language of a pastoral heart. >> rose: is it fair to say, not knowing about jesuits and all men who come to the
priesthood and those who come to work within church, men and women, that the driving thing for 90% of them is the articulation of what this pope has made? it is i come to the church because i want to do god's work. and i perceive god's work as helping those who can't help themselves. >> i think that's correct. and i think they say pope who is wrest ling with, in a very public way, the meaning of the pastoral constitution of the church in the modern world which talks about the necessity of the world for the church's mission. without the world -- >> rose: when people ask me who do you most want to interview? i say the pope. >> when he comes to new york, we'll give a good recommendation. he'll come right in. >> rose: he'll be talking to a sinner. >> he'll feel very much at home. >> he has, i think, developed not just there this interviewer
he has developed a new papal idiom, and it's an idiom of encounter and engagement. using the phone. using touch. using the exuberance of his own heart, and using this, using the media. he has a sense of being a missionary, a paul in our generation. >> rose: i want to come back to the relationship with the-- pope pep ticket, who resigned. >> right. >> rose: they consult? they talk? what do we know within the church about want relationship? >> we do know that they do see one another. we do know that pope francis refers to pope benedict with great affection as the "old man," almost a grandfatherly sense. >> rose: i talked to the old man today and he said. >> with the affection that seems to be really at the heart of pope francis' personality. he speaks of him with great affection, talks about listening to him and praises him and i think we can never think that
this man is giving empty praise. this man talks the truth. he speaks truth. talks in a way which is off handed and very honest. he prays as pope benedict. he thinks he is one of the great theologians we've had. >> one the greatest post-concilior intellects. >> one of the defining theologians of the second half the 20th century. and i think pope francis has unfamed affection and wrenchance for him. and they do get together. we know that because of the way in which he talks about it. >> i would say to pope emeritus benedict's credit, we don't know much more about that relationship because pope benedict decide he has spoken his last public word, and when he said he's going to retire to a life of prayer, that's what
he's done. and that's how he intends -- >> rose: does he live on the papal grounds? >> he does. he lives in vatican city state. >> rose: so it's easy-- >> it sure is. what i mean to say is he is not in any way commenting or acting as a shadow figure. i think pope emeritus benedict is very aware of the fact that he-- with everything he does, he is set a precedent. >precedent. >> right. and he has given, through his absence, he has given francis great freedom to chart his own course and set a new tone for the papacy. and there's this great respectfulness here in the relationship on both sides. benedict is showing it by being quiet, and francis by being exuberant in his effectiveness. >> rose: he spoke out with respect to syria. >> oh, yes. >> rose: does he want to play
that kind of role on these great political issues of our time? >> i don't know if there's a role per se that pope francis -- >> rose: certainly give voice. gave what he considered to be moral voice to the issue of a military strike against syria saying don't do it. >> i think he does want to do that. i think he wants to call the world to its senses. i think he-- he's very conscious of his moral authority to go back to what matt said before. he doesn't do anything-- although he seems very off the cuff-- i don't think he does anything off the cuff. i think he reflects deeply about what he's going to do and then gives voice to the plan that he has conceived through testing. and goes forward with it. i do think he does want to play a role of-- i don't think he wants to play a political role. but i do think he wants to have a moral voice present in the world and i think he also, in all he did around the syria
question. he wants to unite all religious voices. >> we saw that in his remarks in st. peter square when they had the vigil for peace in syria. 100,000 people were there. this in itself was unprecedented. there had never been a vigil on the eve of the gulf wars. and he called us all to pray and fast on that day. you know, i hear pope benedict saying eye mean, francis. it's. a long week. pope francis saying that this is-- what i see him doing in this interview is calling our attention to the radical nature of the gospel call. particularly in his remarks on the syria question. he says, "if we think that we are going to have peace anywhere, let alone syria, without want radical acts of love and forgiveness, which the gospel calls for, we're dluld" >> rose: what's interesting about this, these are very, very straight, direct, precise
questions. >> uh-huh. >> rose: i read from the interview, "what should be the role of women in the church?" a big issue. "i am wary of a solution that can be reduced to a find of female akiz mow because a woman has a different makeup than a man. but what i hear by role of women is often inspired by acheese mow. women are anything deep questions that must be addressed. church captain be herself without the women in her role. the woman is essential for the church. i say this because we must not confuse the function with the dignity. we must, therefore, investigate the further role of women. we must, there were, investigate further the role of women in the church. this is his hint that we are going to start thinking about these things but. they will not necessarily be the public debate t. >> yeah, and-- ad-.
>> rose: you guys tell me. >> he's inviting conversation, and deep conversation. >> absolutely. and reflection. >> and inclusive. this is a man who made it clearly the wider-- going to your point about governance it's wider the conversation, the deeper it is and stronger it is. he's inviting that sort of conversation on this very divisive, up until this point, idea. and he said on the plane right back from buenos aires in the famous-- first famous interview, he said, you know, that john paul ii had defin fill closed the door to the ordination of of women through his papal pronouncements. but there are lots of ways in which women can be involved in the life and governance of the church that don't require ordination. and i think this pope knows that. so i would be surprised if we didn't see at some point in this papacy women in unpress demmed positions. >> i agree with you entirely.
tick he is inviting everyone to engage in a conversation about a theology of women. but i think he's also deeply aware of the fact that the ministry of women is present in the church and one of the great strengths but it has to be looked at and enriched even more. >> rose: what does church say to divorced and remarried people and homosexuals?" "in buenos arees i received letters who said they felt the church condemned them. the church does not want to do this. i say if a homosexual person is of goes goodwill and in search of god i am no one to judge. by saying, this i said what the catechism says-- religion has right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but god in creation has site us free. it is not possible to interfere spiritually. in the life of a person. >> because a person, a man, a woman, a gay person, a straight
person-- whatever-- a person is a person. a person is not an idea. a person is not a social construct. a person is not a collection of biological functions. a person is someone created in the image and likeness of god, and that is precious. >> the thing that we have not talked about, which is a huge, as they say, elephant in the room, is the terrible instances of the church and its. -- and abuse, especially of young people, innocents. >> yes. >> rose: does he talk about this? >> indirectly. >> yes. >> indirectly, but actually in a very powerful way. he says what he sees, pris his principal image of the church right now say field hospital after a battle and our priority is to heal the wounds. and he has this very charming bit where he says, when somebody comes to you who is seriously
wounded, you don't ask them about their cholesterol levels." you know, you tend to-- and that's what we -- >> rose: but the idea of abuse is not about cholesterol. i mean, that's about the soul of the church. >> that's his point. >> a mortal wound on the person who was abused, and it's a mortal wound, i think, for the church. although he disappoint address it directly here, but only indirectly, he has made it clear over the years when he was in office in argentina, he thought that the way want abuse scandals had been handled was scandalously bad, inappropriate -- >> rose: too many people protected. >> yes, and he said it was madness and foolishness to do some of the things that were done. and was it last week, denuncio in the dominican rug was accused, and immediately he was recalled to rome. and when the question was put to the holy see-- "are you protecting this man?" and the spokespurpose said
absolutely not. we are cooperating epityler with the authorities in the dominican rug and we'll go with their judgment. this is, i think, a see change in the way in which the church is responding to this. i don't want to reduce nan to one thing, but i think pope francis has a deeply pastoral heart. and he believes the pastoral mission and ninistry of the church has been compromised terribly but what has happened and he is reacting as a pastor to the wound and a pastor to the wound of the church walz. >> i would be shocked if he didn't have the sexual abuse crisis in mind when he was talking about the church's wounds. >> rose: exactly. finally, i leave with you this, we find out in this interview that we likes mozart, and his favorite film is "fellini." >> i found that absolutely charming. >> he likes wagner. >> i won't go there. but i thought in his conversation earlier when he talks about his visits to rome,
and he refers to the car valuableio painting of the call of matthew. he is a man who i think has a great love of the arts, but also why does he love that? that's me. matthew is caught. the sinner is called. and that's-- you know, the wounded hart is what makes for the most passionate. so i love that part as well. >> i think he's a great mystery for us to wrest weland figure out for the next few years, and i hope there were more than just a few years. >> rose: pleasure to have you here, and great to see you. >> great to see you. >> rose: congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> rose: here it is, pope francis, the exclusive interview. a pope speaks. back in a moment. stay with us.
♪ never be cross or try to bebo. ♪ but they wouldn't do for nobody else gives me a thrill with all your faults, i love you still ♪ >> i've been doing a lot of thinking. the thing silove you. >> what? >> i love you. >> do you expect me to respond to this? >> how about you love me too. >> rose: billy crystal is here. his new memoir looks back on some of the heights of a life and career. s it called "still foolin' 'em--" where i've been, where i'm going, and where the hell are my keys. and he's bringing back his play
"700 sundays "this fall. i am pleases to have him here at this table for the first time. why write this? >> i approached the 65th birthday with a lot of trepidation. this one got to me. this one got to me. >> rose: because? >> it's a big number. 50 was big, 40-- but they all became something. my 40s became "city slickers" and when i became a any of, it was "parental guidance." this one eye got my social security stuff and my medicare stuff and it all got stereo real -- >> rose: this is when society says you're supposed to retire. >> exactly. and i just feel like i'm really getting going. and i thought i would go out on the road and do stand-up when i haven't done in a long time. and i started writing stuff they thought was really funny about what gravity was could go to my
body. and -- >> rose: it's not kind. >> no, no. and it became-- they became more like essays, and that became the book. >> rose: and did it bring back memories? what does it do to write and think and go back and share things that you might have forgotten about? >> you know what was a great thing, charlie. it gave me a discipline i didn't have before as far as writing. when i worked on a script as a producer or writer i would be in the room where other people. this was getting to the computer every day for a set amount of time-- whatever happened, happened. if i had something, great. if i didn't, i wouldn't go. and i really loved it. and it brought back so many stories and so many memories that when it was done, i felt like okay. i've had a really good life. and that's what the book's about. >> rose: michael caine told me when he wrote his first-- he wrote a two-part memoir-- he said you remember things that you think you don't remember or you had forgotten and then you remember more and you remember more and she you remember more.
>> and then when they're done and they print it you go, "i forgot that." that happens, too. >> rose: belong beach. a place you love and you paid homage it meant to you. >> my home town. we're both from small towns. you'res is considerably smaller than mine. >> rose: and not close to new york city, either. >> we were about 10,000 people in the winter and four or five million in the summer. it's a little beach town that got beaten up badly by sandy. and janice and i are trying to help get it back up on its feet. >> rose: who is this janice you're talking about? >> my wife of 43 years. our first date was during the johnson administration. i was 18 years old when i saw her, i said to my friend, i'm going to marry her." >> rose: i don't believe that for a second. >> oh, yeah, oh, yeah. >> rose: how do you know that? >> i also said that about julia proust. it was just a thing. i just saw her and i just went, "that's it."
and then-- you know -- >> rose: you chased her? it was on the beach? >> yeah, i went after her and we started talking and we were both counselors in a day camp and started dating and that was it. i didn't go back to college because of her. >> rose: but you changed colleges. >> yeah, i -- >> rose: because you believed if you went back to where you had been going to college-- what was it marshall? >> yeah. >> gl and you came back and went to a community college. >> yes. where i really found myself, too. nasa community college got me into the theater department and i don't think i stopped working since i was there. it takes a teacher. it takes a program. it takes somebody that you just latch on to. and it was there. two guys, who were acting teacher and head of the department, and they-- i started directing right away. i started acting right away. we did musicals. we built our own theater-- it was a fascinating place. it was an old air force base.
they'd he's airplane hangars and the theater department made it a theater, an indoor/outdoor theater. we would have 3,000 people on a summer night watching musicals on the runway of an old air force base. that was the place that really got me going. and from there i went to n.y.u., and studied film, and martin scorsese was my professor. >> rose: how was he? >> tense guy. a beard like here, granny glasses, hair to his shoulders. who else looked like that in '68? everybody. he was so brilliant and intense. he was making his first movie. called "who's that knocking on my door?" l&a tiny little first independet movie. but he was so inspike, every time i see him i say the same thing to him, "why did you give me a c?" >> rose: what does he say, you deserve aid fee. >> it was out of focusing. everything was of you did was
out of focus. >> rose: your parents concerned you to do whatever you want to do. you want to be a stand-up comedian from? >> my dad, who i lost when i was 15, really sent he on my way showing it was okay to stay up lake during the week to watch ernie socontact, and jack par, it was the 50s, look who was on television, gleason, carney, and every sunday foyt ed sullivan would have a great different kind of stand-up comedian. and it was usually alan king. every week it was alan king. and that was the time to elsewhere. dad brought home comedy albums-- >> they had that jazz label. and he would bring you comedy albums. >> you'd listen, listen to the
masters and you'd hear the timing and start to develop your own timing but you'd understand what nichols and may were doing live on broadway. you'd understand what jonathan winters was like. and then the 200-year-old man became my baseball. >> rose: became your bible because you listened to those two, carl and mike and said-- mel. >> they originally were carl and mike. and they broke up. mike was with elaine. now that i've been working for a while, they're very good friends of mine, and it really freaks me out they know carl and mel very well. >> because they shaped you when you were a kid. >> you learned two things from them. you learned how to jump go. them and them you learn to be unselfer like carl, you listen and feed.
>> rose: you said failure is an important thing for a comedian to understand. >> yeah. >> rose: meaning? >> i think you have to be willing to bomb. you have to go out on edge and say this may not work. and be bold. don't work safe because then you're not exploring every second on there. even if you do bomb-- and we all do-- something good will come out of that. >> rose: you'll make it better than next time. >> and that was the best advice i was ever given. it's by a brilliant who is now 96, jack rollins. >> rose: oh, yeah. >> mary: he was woody's manager, nick scpolz, and i was one of his puppy comedians. >> rose: puppy comedians. >> it was the new boy. the man who worked under him,
buddy moroh, was my everyday guy. and i was starting to do really well. >> rose: at the comedy clubs around. >> catch a rising star in new york and the improv. and jack was domestic of coming to see me. he looked like an eclective brooklyn college english -- >> rose: like he was a navy admiral. >> mary: and want butt of a sihanking out his mouth. i really hit the 20 minutes good, hitting strong, the crowd was going strong. the first timei'm going to see -- >> rose: that he was that good? >> you get this after-flow for a good 20 minutes that's great. and jack said how did you feel it went tonight he said i
thought i was great. i said i didn't like it. he goes why-- it was very effective but you never told me how you feel about something. you never use the word "eye" in a sudden sentence. piknow what mohammed lee is pause i'm intersecting them. you can could do very well for these 20s minute. but you didn't feel safe and a tirng a little extra something you leave on the table to-- the as you yeps will take that with them. they'll know when you are. what did you was very good chinese food because gnaw of you tonight remember that eight. >> he said you are a husband and father pup have an 18-month-old baby. talk about that.
talk about that. that yotalk about-- he said comn tomorrow. don't co2 any of this stuff. it will be rocky and something good will come out of it. >> rose: how long did it take you? >> it took me a couple of weeks before you understood it. the next night i understood is it, i did bomb. one night a toe bitter end downtown-- i'm on stage, things are starting to go pretty well and i see a still wet of somebody in the door bay and thought, "oh, man. it's bill cosby." that was my hero then, because cosghee was a guy and so relatable on records. he has brothers, i had brothers. he blade 52 in temple.
he came baj backpage and introduced himself. this was cosby at hit fight. very akin: let them. let them catch you working. so hopso and it's taken a varioy well. >> rose: bill koz dee told me one of the most important moments in miown and he went to see jonathan winters and winters had a bad night, and i thought i can fail and sum tech city. >> rose: a lot of people loved him, don't they, bill crosby. yes. it's just natural you feel like he's a prevent and has been for 40 year, how how much is learned
ask how about of it distinctive way. join don't know about percentages? >> it would have to to be vote. a loss of peep, with mar making thez xs capitol hill up. some people will say there's nothing. it's just you. you have no band. you have no support. you have no vocalist. just you standing up there with people saying, "be funny." >> it's a tough job. i said, well, try boxing." >> saturday night live was a big break for you. i was part of the-- i was going to be a guest on the first show and got bumped. what was it they department like? it wasn't that they didn't like everything. everything was too long. when lorn michaels came over and
say i need two minutes. i said two minutes after what i did? and the arguments and whatever happened and i'm waiting in the hallway to do the snow, and i said come oit's not happening. that was hard because when i met lorne at catch a rising star i knew right away that i was brilliant young guy. the guests on the first show were andy cough map, who did mighty mouse on the first show, two musical acts. but i knew i was government officialed with something fantastic. and there was a big lead-up on that show with me and everybody on the staff but it doesn't
happen. lauren had me become in 1984, dick ember sal was a producer and i of i hoped it case twiceand he said would you consider coming with us for a season if i can get marty short to come? and i said yes. >> rose: when the whole contact sense. joan baez should be sitting here and all the different characters and working with chris fest garthy and making these thun films i bolted one curing the season. and then led to the movies. >.>> .. . what is great about yr life is the remarkable relationship with some people. he called you his back televisions.
that was my first experience of a really agreed friend, any badly missed. mohammed had just beaten george form man in marc and was now sport magazine's editor of the year. they had local special-- it was only seen in three states-- high pressuring hue and a mutual agent said bob'sount of up to but i have this young guy. tell him friday night, 8:00, plaza hotel, archie 45ep just up with ties of mice taphe said how
should i introduce you? i hadn't been on anything, nothing. just say i'm one of his oldest and dearest friends. my thought was i'll go right to the microphone, won't talk, go to cosell and then aali. which i finished-- no one had done him yet. and here is this little jewish guy doing the greatest of all time. and i started getting heckled by bundani. do you remember him? >> rose: oh, sure. he was a side man. he's saying talk about joe frazier. and i hear it, "you got it. you got it! and i was like, what, what. my first i'm on television and i'm getting heckled. "sit down, sit down, drew. we know your story. we've seen you." this is about mohammed. i just handled it and when i
finished he said you're my little brother and we've been like that for a long time. >> rose: do you still see him? >> i do still see him. >> rose: how is he? >> he's better than people think. >> rose: because of the speech. >> and he helped me raise $1 million for my hometown, for long beach, sackedy relief. >> rose: by an appearance? >> there's an organization called fight night, and it's in phoenix every march, and jimmy walker put this together and they raise money for parkinson's research -- >> rose: not the comedian? >> no. i've never seen an evening with as many sports and entertainment people mingled together, and the money that is raised in phoenix is unbelievable. and all ali, was there, of cour. he and his wife, lonnie-- who is a phenomenal person-- saw the
damage on cnn. she called me and said, that's your hometown, isn't it?" and i said, "yeah." and she said, "how can we help?" i said, i'm coming to fight night." she said, "we'll raise money that night and we will a portion of what we raise. it's not a seam davis jr. kind of thing saying he's a friend of mine. but look what he did for me. >> i sat behind him at an nba all-star game. and i knew him slightly and he tapped me opt shoulder and gave me popcorn pop i said thank you and took a handful and handed it back. three minutes later. he's sharing his popcorn. i go to see him, this was about five, six years ago, and staying at a hotel in l.a.
and i come into the room, and i of we're talking and then he falls asleep. and lonnie, his wife, calls me over and whispers to me. he's not sleeping at night and he's been having nightmares about his fights. he thinks he's in a fight and he'll start throwing punches. and i have to leave the room so he's very exhausted. so that's why he's sleeping now. >now. and i'm sitting next to him like this and suddenly he starts hitting me in the back of the head. look out, joe, frazier, joe frazier. was it all a joke. and i laughed, and howard bingham comes in and takes pictures, all these pictures of me laughing. >> rose: he actually did that with ed bradley in a "60 minutes" piece and ed was surprised, totally surprised. and really the joke was on him. mickey mantle, your boyhood hero, other than comedy. >> amaze they go got to know
him. from the first time i saw him i was eight years old. he signed a program in the clubhouse that came out for us. my dad took us to the game it was sort of kismet. we had louie armstrong seats and the program came out, i kept it all these years, he signs the same program for me 20-something years later. and then we became, like with mohammed we became frebz, and sometimes you shouldn't meet heroes, you know, but because you're going to find a part of them that's not as attract itch as it may be-- as you may want. and i was with him many times where-- the drinking was bad, and -- >> rose: and the drinking becomes abusiveness. >> and sadness and regrets. and it was really interesting. i was doing a special for nbc, host a special at cooperstown. and mickey was a guest.
he had not been in the hall of fame to see his plaque. when he got inducted he left because he said to me, "you know, i was never good enough. i should have been better. i never was good enough. i don't--" so i walked him to his plaque with another writer named david israel. >> rose: oh, year, i know david. >> and we showed him where highs plaque was. the next night. >> rose: what did he say? >> why am i here. i should be with willy. now he's complapg, the man who didn't want to go. we had this talk late at night. he couldn't sleep, and he was drinking night and we were supposed to be up early the next morning to continue shooting. and he was all upset. and i said what is it? and he said,"i always felt i failed my dad." >> rose: his father's name was mutt, right, mutt man. >> yes.
he was 19. every time i do something good on the field i'd out there and oe's not there. i felt like i failed him i said, "mickey, i lost my dad when i was 15. and i'm not you, but he set me on my way and what i do. and i know the feeling of doing a good show and looking out and the chair's empty. there's no one there. or a wedding, no one's there." so basically, this hero and i were basically two teenagers just missing our dads. and it was a phenomenal moment they had with mickey mantle that's not on the ballfield. that's-- it was just two guys talking. >> rose: what was it about him? was it the power because we love the home and run he could hit them and he was strong and he could hit from both sides of the plate or he could run fast? he had this gift. >> but he had this charisma, too, and it was the 50s. he was very much a prince of the 50s. he was elvis in pinstripes.
it was all of it it's blond hair, blue eyes, the perfect physique. he looked better in a uniform than anyone else. but it was the unpredictable power that you would see something spectacular. and he also was fragile. and know-- it was like-- it was like hoping he'd get through a game sometimes because he was always breaking down in some way. and it was very akin to ali. which ali was our champion, no one hit him. you know, and when he started to slow down just a little bit, now he's getting hilt and cut by henry cooper, and you'd go, "he going to hit!" when mantel would-- it just was so spectacular a player that he-- you just went, "he got through the game okay. he got through okay." and he was so-- he was just so interesting on a ballfield. it's very hard to put into words, but i've been with him when grown men would cry when
they'd see him. he meant that much to us. and, you know, the contribution-- those of us-- they said i don't understand it. they didn't live through it. people like bob costas -- >> rose: i think bob gave the eulogy. >> bob and i wrote that together. >> rose: i didn't than. that was beautiful. >> bob and i called him to come to dallas and we did not know that he was terminal and mickey said, "listen, i want to be stronger when i see you. and then we can have some fun. and i'm looking forward to seeing you guys now that i'm sober." he knew that he was dying. so when it was all done, bob called me and i went to dallas, and the night before the funeral we stayed up like two high school kids cramming for a final. and we we hugged each other like we were there to bury a very loved relative. but what we really were burying was our childhood glu have a remarkable quality for
friendship. >> i'm fortunate. i have great friends. >> rose: and oscar is in here, too. how many times, eight? >> nine. >> rose: what was about you and the oscars? you did it. and this is a hard thing. we've seen a lot of people do it okay. but did you it with a certain-- the proof is in the pudding. they wanted you you to come back every year. >> i wanted to make it special. i tried to change the job of what the host did. we did a lot of different things. we did the the musical medley of the nominated songs, started putting me independent nominated films, and we shot people in the audience and i would improvise what i thought they were thinking. and we tried to make it fresh and different and i had some of the my best moments as a comedian on the oscar stage. >> rose: when you look at this and all the things you do it's pretty high up. >> it's very high up. but the highest thing would have to be batting lead-off for the
new york yankees. sorry, behind my wife, my kids, and my grand kids. i led off for the new york yankees. i i wanted it back. >> rose: what happened? >> i fouled it off. it was the night -- >> rose: this is it. i mean, if you could have played for the yankees, nothing else would have mattered. no>> i'd be in broadcasting now, "he's not going to his left the way he should." >> rose: that's right. it's a wonderful book. it really is. >> thank you. >> rose: and i want to close because your wife is there. 43 years? >> >> yes. >> rose: you talk about-- what is interesting is you talk about dying. you talk about what happens when you get 65. and you just talk about what's meant something to you. you learned jack rollins' advice well and what people care about is who are you and what you-- it's the personal things that people remember. >> uh-huh is ther.
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